Trigger - ultra lite. A heck of a lot of practice and I never rest my finger on it . 15 grams is just a bit over 1/2oz don't know if I could even feel that anymore. ( old age) I have several that will go that lite but generally perfer something close to an oz( about 30 grams). In rim fire or Air rifle it isn't much of a problem but with center fire the shock wave from anothers unit could possibly cause a problem. As parts do wear maintaining that might become difficult.
How did I get there (my story)
- Thread starter PedroS
- Start date
analretentive
Member
I guess Pedro's busy. I'm not in his class but I have been shooting a 6-7 gram trigger for about 2 years now, andd believe it or not; after a couple thousand pulls, you get used to it. I don't know how I could go back to 2 ounces.
I did learn immediately to keep my hand totally away from the trigger until I had chambered a round and moved to the next bull (double 100s =0). I don't put my finger inside the guard until I have at least a preliminary sight set up. I still screw up occasionaly but they are 50s and lucky 100s instead of 10s and 0s.
I personally caress the blade ever so slightly before I release. I'm looking forward to hear how Pedro does it.
Gerry
Thank you for posting.
Rimfire and center fire are different beasts, no doubt.
Maintaining such a lower trigger weight is no difficult, but really depends on trigger quality. But each in their one way. Of course if you don't feel comfortable with such a low weight, adjust the trigger to your needs. And many triggers can't go so low either.
Sorry Etienne, for some reason I didn't read your post... my fault.
Managing the trigger. Should we do that?
I think every time you try to manage the trigger you'll end up with a miss fire. Just because you tend to pull the trigger, and not to fire.
Those are different things... pulling the trigger and firing. I know, kind of difficult to understand, but you should be able to fire without pulling the trigger. What?
Take a breath.
Firing is a couple of actions (aiming+wind reading+decision+movement), pulling the trigger, on the other hand, is just action (movement). Voluntary movement, I must say.
Remember when I said, voluntary actions can only be done once a time? Unfortunately, voluntary movements can only be driven once a time. So, if you try to manage your trigger, you lost all other fundamental aspects... aiming, wind reading, readiness, decision... you name it. When all your effort is related to the trigger, because you are afraid of it, you are afraid that it let go sooner than wanted, you are afraid to miss.
Funny enough, when a shooter try one of my rifles I never tell them about the lightness of my triggers. Of course, they are surprised, but the first shot is better than the following ones. That means, if you don't care about the trigger, it doesn't matter it's weight (between certain margins).
If you don't manage to fire with a super light trigger, it should warn you that your firing sequence is not yet at its best.
It will take time, some steps back are needed too.
You could just decide not worth it, or just not wanting to, That's ok.
That's why I always say, try everything, but stick with what works for you.
Why I have learned to shoot with super light triggers? Easy, the lighter the trigger, the less potential torque on the rifle. I do everything I can to minimize shooter errors.
I only touch the trigger blade when my decision is made. And, it's not a finger movement, it's a full shooting arm movement, keeping my firing wrist, hand and finger steady.
for years I ran triggers in the 1/2 oz or a bit lighter, my issues now are just old age and loss of feeling in the extremities. Mostly due to years of working with my hands. I can still use the super light triggers but just prefer to err on the side of caution a bit. I have set triggers on some units, a flea landing on the set trigger will set it off.
Hello Pedro,
Thank you for these details,
I always shoot better when I take care of the wind, not my finger and I send the shot!
I use a Flavio, at the beginning of the year I shot at 30g, this summer at 20g, now I'm working to be comfortable at 15g before going down again,
I really like the lightness.
I looked at you carefully and it seems to me that you touch the side of the trigger guard with your thumb to properly position your hand?
Can you say a little more about what you do to avoid having a shot go off unexpectedly?
Exciting to read you
Thank you for these details,
I always shoot better when I take care of the wind, not my finger and I send the shot!
I use a Flavio, at the beginning of the year I shot at 30g, this summer at 20g, now I'm working to be comfortable at 15g before going down again,
I really like the lightness.
I looked at you carefully and it seems to me that you touch the side of the trigger guard with your thumb to properly position your hand?
Can you say a little more about what you do to avoid having a shot go off unexpectedly?
Exciting to read you
Man, at the last worlds I noticed a crowd of "spies" behind me.
It took me a couple of breaths to recompose, because unexpectedly I felt a rising in pressure... being observed
I'm not immune to erros, so I do what I can to avoid them.
I block my index finger with my thumb, and when positioning the hand for shooting I touch the trigger guard with the side of my thumb, but that's it. After positioning, all done mechanically, the hand just goes off a little bit away from the trigger guard. Then, I know I'm ready to shoot when the condition presents.
Through the years I developed a mental trigger... readiness, condition, aiming, double check, aiming, action (firing). This way I can't go off, because a series of procedures have to be done before releasing. I just can't release in between, my brain is occupied with the sequence, so no other order can enter.
This sequence has to learned step by step, as a voluntary procedure, until it becomes automatic. Of course, from time to time, I practice just the sequence, to maintain the automatic level.
A very special warning here...
You have to know what you are doing, and being aware of middle road shortcuts, and worse, middle road "secondary effects". The must feared one is the potential developing of target panic. Again, consider yourself warned.
Target panic is a mental shortcut development, that will drive you nuts, leading to demotivation and going out of shooting. Why? Because target panic is an automatic brain trigger that will release every time you see the target center, or, when approaching it. You can't do anything against, it's a nightmare.
This is archery definition of it:
"Target panic is essentially an archer's worst nightmare. It's defined as anxiety when your pin is on target and can manifest itself in many different ways, including hovering your pin above or below your target, smacking the trigger right when your pin gets on target, or flinching when releasing an arrow".
Don't let anyone tell you differently, target panic DO affect rifle shooting. Sometimes very subtle. Have you ever saw an index finger being nervous on trigger blade? That's the beginning.
Target panic is very evident on prone shooters, less so on benchrest, but it will avoid you to wait for the condition and to shoot when you're ready.
The best benchrest solution to avoid it, but I don't like, neither recommend the technique, is aiming and then rising your head and shooting when a condition presents, not looking through the scope.
This could be another very interesting subject to discuss...
It took me a couple of breaths to recompose, because unexpectedly I felt a rising in pressure... being observed
I'm not immune to erros, so I do what I can to avoid them.
I block my index finger with my thumb, and when positioning the hand for shooting I touch the trigger guard with the side of my thumb, but that's it. After positioning, all done mechanically, the hand just goes off a little bit away from the trigger guard. Then, I know I'm ready to shoot when the condition presents.
Through the years I developed a mental trigger... readiness, condition, aiming, double check, aiming, action (firing). This way I can't go off, because a series of procedures have to be done before releasing. I just can't release in between, my brain is occupied with the sequence, so no other order can enter.
This sequence has to learned step by step, as a voluntary procedure, until it becomes automatic. Of course, from time to time, I practice just the sequence, to maintain the automatic level.
A very special warning here...
You have to know what you are doing, and being aware of middle road shortcuts, and worse, middle road "secondary effects". The must feared one is the potential developing of target panic. Again, consider yourself warned.
Target panic is a mental shortcut development, that will drive you nuts, leading to demotivation and going out of shooting. Why? Because target panic is an automatic brain trigger that will release every time you see the target center, or, when approaching it. You can't do anything against, it's a nightmare.
This is archery definition of it:
"Target panic is essentially an archer's worst nightmare. It's defined as anxiety when your pin is on target and can manifest itself in many different ways, including hovering your pin above or below your target, smacking the trigger right when your pin gets on target, or flinching when releasing an arrow".
Don't let anyone tell you differently, target panic DO affect rifle shooting. Sometimes very subtle. Have you ever saw an index finger being nervous on trigger blade? That's the beginning.
Target panic is very evident on prone shooters, less so on benchrest, but it will avoid you to wait for the condition and to shoot when you're ready.
The best benchrest solution to avoid it, but I don't like, neither recommend the technique, is aiming and then rising your head and shooting when a condition presents, not looking through the scope.
This could be another very interesting subject to discuss...
Hi-NV Shooter
Member
Hi Pedro, Great information on your experiences. could you elaborate on why you do not recommend shooting heads up or not looking through the scope. I found this to have helped with my reading conditions better. but most of all I feel more relaxed / calm and get into a better rhythm.Man, at the last worlds I noticed a crowd of "spies" behind me.
It took me a couple of breaths to recompose, because unexpectedly I felt a rising in pressure... being observed
I'm not immune to erros, so I do what I can to avoid them.
I block my index finger with my thumb, and when positioning the hand for shooting I touch the trigger guard with the side of my thumb, but that's it. After positioning, all done mechanically, the hand just goes off a little bit away from the trigger guard. Then, I know I'm ready to shoot when the condition presents.
Through the years I developed a mental trigger... readiness, condition, aiming, double check, aiming, action (firing). This way I can't go off, because a series of procedures have to be done before releasing. I just can't release in between, my brain is occupied with the sequence, so no other order can enter.
This sequence has to learned step by step, as a voluntary procedure, until it becomes automatic. Of course, from time to time, I practice just the sequence, to maintain the automatic level.
A very special warning here...
You have to know what you are doing, and being aware of middle road shortcuts, and worse, middle road "secondary effects". The must feared one is the potential developing of target panic. Again, consider yourself warned.
Target panic is a mental shortcut development, that will drive you nuts, leading to demotivation and going out of shooting. Why? Because target panic is an automatic brain trigger that will release every time you see the target center, or, when approaching it. You can't do anything against, it's a nightmare.
This is archery definition of it:
"Target panic is essentially an archer's worst nightmare. It's defined as anxiety when your pin is on target and can manifest itself in many different ways, including hovering your pin above or below your target, smacking the trigger right when your pin gets on target, or flinching when releasing an arrow".
Don't let anyone tell you differently, target panic DO affect rifle shooting. Sometimes very subtle. Have you ever saw an index finger being nervous on trigger blade? That's the beginning.
Target panic is very evident on prone shooters, less so on benchrest, but it will avoid you to wait for the condition and to shoot when you're ready.
The best benchrest solution to avoid it, but I don't like, neither recommend the technique, is aiming and then rising your head and shooting when a condition presents, not looking through the scope.
This could be another very interesting subject to discuss...
Another reason I started shooting this way is that I have two fused vertebrates in my neck so after a while looking through the scope caused too much strain on my neck. one last thing I shoot off a one-piece rest so rifle alignment is assured.
Thanks,
Lee
Thanks for posting Lee.
If a shooter has a physical condition that needs a different approach, or if some technique variable gives an advantage, by all means stay with it.
That said, I'll explain why I don't recommend the "heads up" way of shooting.
Just because, as you don't have a constant feedback where your aiming is, it could/will drive a doubt in the process. I have study several good shooters that used it. What I noticed the most? Some missed good opportunities, because the shooter broke off the sequence, to be reassured about aiming point.
Also, as you shoot with a fixed aiming point, a very strict condition have to appear, and time is not always available.
This technique is better with screw front rests type, and not joysticks, because the laters have a tendency to move.
Finally, putting aiming out of the equation, broke the positive feedback in the shooting sequence. Remember only wind reading and aiming should be voluntary done.
I shoot (as we all should) with both eyes open. One is reading the wind the other is aiming.
Hi-NV Shooter
Member
Thank You, Pedro for explaining your thoughts on why shooting heads up is not something you would recommend. you made a good point about missing a condition because of going back to check aiming point/hold. in the beginning when I switched from looking through the scope and heads up that happened a lot. I learned that to shoot this way you must minimize any input to the rifle and make sure your rest has no movement from loose adjustments. I also make sure only the pad of my trigger finger touches the trigger and that is the only thing when I shoot. it took time to build the confidence in shooting this way. only time I have problems is when I am shooting off an unstable bench (not a solid concrete)
I really enjoy and learn from what you have been posting. some of your experiences I have similar experiences one I am very familiar with was what you shared about a certain rifle and how it took a year's shooting to finally settle on the correct tuner setting for it. but when you do find the correct one as you also mentioned finding good lots is also a benefit of having it.
Thanks,
Lee
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Rimfireshooter
Member
Lee, I do something similar, except I use a very small o-ring around the trigger shoe to help my consistency in touching the shoe at the same place everytime.
Hi-NV Shooter
Member
Larry, I tried the o ring. but for me it felt like it I still was touching the side. with the ball bearing I feel just the tip and no contact on the side.
but like Pedro said anything to be consistent is good.
Lee
Rank Stranger
New member
Is “backlash” pretravel or overtravel?Thanks Pedro,
Ok, no backlash!
I'm going to check my triggers.
I understood as pre travel.
Over, or pos travel is easier to followthrough.
Pedro
What rear rest will you use with your new ROTEX stock. What bag spacing. Lenzie makes a 14mm ear spacing heavy sand bottom with light sand ears. Would this bag work? I shoot 3 point like you recommend and need a bag to work with my Randolph front rest.