Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 31 to 40 of 40

Thread: What it takes to win... outside gear

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    295
    Quote Originally Posted by PedroS View Post
    Before addressing the target...

    Let us know the very last seconds before the voice: "Start shooting"
    1. Do I have my bolt? (still working on that one)
    2. Start music playlist. (not allowed in Europe apparently)
    3. Continue watching flags for predominant condition. This starts minutes before the card. I watch for the predominant condition, not my favorite condition. On very windy or switchy days if the "Commence Fire" command comes when that condition isn't prevalent I'll shoot a few shots off target and wait for that condition to return to start with sighters. I might even shoot just a few sighters with this condition but I'm mostly interested in "conquering" the prevailing condition. I think these first minutes are when many targets are won or lost... but since you've asked specifically about the moments before "Commence Fire" I'll wait until until you get to those first minutes.

    Bruce Hornstein

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    149
    Quote Originally Posted by MaxxPower View Post
    1. Do I have my bolt? (still working on that one)
    2. Start music playlist. (not allowed in Europe apparently)
    3. Continue watching flags for predominant condition. This starts minutes before the card. I watch for the predominant condition, not my favorite condition. On very windy or switchy days if the "Commence Fire" command comes when that condition isn't prevalent I'll shoot a few shots off target and wait for that condition to return to start with sighters. I might even shoot just a few sighters with this condition but I'm mostly interested in "conquering" the prevailing condition. I think these first minutes are when many targets are won or lost... but since you've asked specifically about the moments before "Commence Fire" I'll wait until until you get to those first minutes.

    Bruce Hornstein

    1. Ahah... who doesn't? And not only the bolt, did I pick the right ammo?

    Think a check list could help here, a mental one I mean. Let's develop an eye sight memory that shows the right place for each item. If one is missing, our brain should gives us a warning. This technique obliges a discipline, where you should put every item in the very same place each time. An obsessive behaviour will be of great help here, but a mess afterwards...

    2. In fact, not allowed in Europe.

    Music playing should help focus. So better ear muffs and a mental focusing program should be scheduled.

    3. Very important.

    And a way to distract the conscious from feeling nervous. Not only looking for the predominant, but also to establish a second shooting condition and, recommended too, an emergency one. This emergency condition could be very helpful on windy days, where waiting for condition A and B can took longer than expected. From time to time I do a special practice where I do 10 targets in 4 min whatever the condition.


    Anyone to jump on these last seconds, or should we go for the comments after the start?

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    8
    I am just an onlooker reading this tread with interest and someone wanting to improve my bench rest exploits and clearly its clear there is a number of factors that make up the ingredients to reach the top but are we underestimating the value of the GUNSMITH in all of this.

    You can use all the right components and be fortunate to get a cracking barrel but if your not using a top notch Gunsmith to put it all together and have it work as intended you might well be making it impossible to reach the levels that want.

    P.S. I'm not a Gunsmith

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    upstate, N.Y.
    Posts
    3,177
    Quote Originally Posted by vicfox View Post
    I am just an onlooker reading this tread with interest and someone wanting to improve my bench rest exploits and clearly its clear there is a number of factors that make up the ingredients to reach the top but are we underestimating the value of the GUNSMITH in all of this.

    You can use all the right components and be fortunate to get a cracking barrel but if your not using a top notch Gunsmith to put it all together and have it work as intended you might well be making it impossible to reach the levels that want.

    P.S. I'm not a Gunsmith
    Covered in post #1, this thread is about mental preperation.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    149
    Yes, only mental.

    I know that this thread is a little chaotic, not following a line of thinking.
    But I rather tend to continue that path, having it as a talk, rather a lecture.
    So, don't be afraid to jump from one theme to another, in fact, it could fire better and more interesting discussions...

    Reading the last Tim's post, that frankly has not much about mental, I start thinking of a shooter nightmare, seldom not perceived in benchrest, Target Panic.
    Target panic is all about mental, let's call it a short circuit in brain orders. You're doing aiming and order to shoot. This is bad. One of two things(?) could happen. Stop aiming, not a great attitude for the ones that want to reach the dot, or creeping the trigger, because your brain doesn't know what should do in first place.
    However, benchrest shooters, should not panic so much as other shooters with target panic. That's why it's so underrated. Because rifles are supported, no parasite (jerk) movements of the body interfere with the shot. Only the trigger action suffers. Target panic is mostly noticed in Sporter, being a lighter rifle, with less front lateral support, is more prone to non desirable movements. The faintest form, in benchrest, could be slight creeping the trigger, and the worst, firing unexpectedly when starting to aim.

    Dealing with target panic is not easy, and sometimes, starting a reconditioning procedure to eliminate it could be really hard and time consuming.

    We all have, or had, some sort of target panic through the time, and the ability to deal with it or, specifically in benchrest, putting it to work in our benefice made a lot of difference in our scores.

    One of the best ways to deal with it, not stopping it, though, is to mentally talk with ourselves during aiming. This technique puts another burden on conscious mind, on top of aiming, so trying to overload it to not induce movement. Complex? Might be, but before dealing deeper, let's listen to others too.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    149
    Well, looks like target panic is not an issue. Good!

    Let's go further...

    How do you mentally approach a card?
    How do you shoot a card? Starting on top, or from below? Rows vs columns?

    When do you know it's time to start? Do you "suffer" more starting or ending?

    Do you take a longer breath at any particular place?
    How do you know it's time to stop?

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    295
    Let's go further...

    How do you mentally approach a card?

    I know headphones with music are not allowed in Europe but starting my Playlist is the best way for me to narrow my focus to the target.

    How do you shoot a card? Starting on top, or from below? Rows vs columns?

    After sighters (at the top) I shoot row by row but no more than 3 bulls- left to right- Always with a sighter for each new row. I've found conditions (even indoors) rarely stay constant for more than 3 or 4 shots - and I have often been burned with that 4th shot.
    If the first shot in a row is good, I go to the next bull. If that shot is good I go to the next. If I shoot a third I always go down to the next row. This gives me time to re-assess conditions and it gets me off of the gun as well.

    When i get to the bottom row I might shoot all 5 if the conditions are behaving. By that time on a target I know more than I did at the top.

    Then I work my way back up (row 4, row 3, row 2, row 1)

    I discovered a few practical things about this method. Psychologically , it seems like your almost done when you get to the bottom but you still have about 10 bulls (2 rows). It just feels like you're on the home stretch instead of just past half-way there.

    I will say that this method is better with Sporter or 3-Gun because of the 30 minutes allowed. With only 20 minutes for Unlimited I might take the risk of a 4th or 5th shot on a row.

    When do you know it's time to start? Do you "suffer" more starting or ending?

    If you're lucky to have very good ammo, as soon as a shot goes right where you expect it to on your sighters it's time to drop down to the sighter to the left of bull #1. Another shot where it's expected on that sighter and you're off to the races.

    Do you take a longer breath at any particular place?

    I don't get the "yips" anymore shooting so that's helpful. I have learned that if you go to a row and the sighters are very different it's time to leave that row. I like to go all the way to the bottom if it happens.

    To some people watching me shoot it can look random but it's not.

    How do you know it's time to stop?

    I don't know if this is what you're asking for but it's a good spot for this: Always count your X's. Bill Pippin gave me this advice after I left a bull un-shot at a Nationals. If you count your X's you have to look at each bull and that's when it's time to stop- After all 25 bulls are shot.

    Bruce Hornstein

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Location
    Mount Pleasant, Wisconsin USA
    Posts
    75
    Bruce, at the start of a card, how many "warm-up" shots do you typically shoot, before moving to a sighter and then into your record bulls? Do you have a standard process for the warm-up?

    Also, I have started to track my targets, T1, T2, etc. for each match in a spreadsheet, then calculating the average for each. I can compare my average from the first card to the last for multiple matches to see if I have a slow start, or a fall off due to fatigue as I shoot the later targets in a match.

    Thanks!

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    295
    Quote Originally Posted by Rimfireshooter View Post
    Bruce, at the start of a card, how many "warm-up" shots do you typically shoot, before moving to a sighter and then into your record bulls? Do you have a standard process for the warm-up?

    Also, I have started to track my targets, T1, T2, etc. for each match in a spreadsheet, then calculating the average for each. I can compare my average from the first card to the last for multiple matches to see if I have a slow start, or a fall off due to fatigue as I shoot the later targets in a match.

    Thanks!
    It's different for Sporter vs. Heavy Gun but I don't really have a set amount. I've had some ammo that I was so confident in I'd go to first bull after 2 or 3 shots but only if sighters were going exactly where they should.

    Usually, I like to have at least 10 rounds down a clean barrel. 2 or 3 off paper. 2 or 3 at a spot on paper (corner of a logo, or something like that) then it's on to the sighters. If something groups in 3 rounds I'm ready to drop down to sighter #1. If not, well, we've all been there. I've shot over 50 rounds before starting on record bulls trying to find a lot that's working.

    Tracking your targets is a good idea. I should be better about that.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    149
    Very interesting points, and thanks for sharing.

    Some years ago I learned from a well seasoned champion... "you are loosing too many 10s on sighters".

    It took me some time to really understood the sentence verdict.
    Like said before, it's rare, to say the least, a same condition more than 2~3 shots. So, if we "loose" those shots on sighters how can we guarantee a bulls eye when it counts?
    On the other sword side, how can we guarantee the right off if we don't do sighters?

    And this dilema has everything to do with how we mentally approach a card.
    Thanks for the previous author posts, we have some great food for thought. And this game is all about thought, how can we integrate others positive perceptions and actions.

    How can we start a card if we aren't confident? How can we go row by row (Pete Seeger's song...) if we don't feel confident?
    So, I always do the same routine shooting a card. Why? Because being the same I don't feel lost, or strange, if something goes wrong. I know something is wrong, because it goes out of routine, and being aware I can work on it. I just take care of conditions, all the rest is automatic, saying. Normally I warm my barrel and brain with 5 off shots. Take the barrel temp, with my finger, and proceed for the bottom right sighter, where I do some shots not looking the wind. Funny enough, is very rare not to make a great group there, go figure. Then I go to the bottom left sighter and chase the wind, and look for condition. If I do 3~4 Xs I start bottom left.

    Why? Well I don't want to have thoughts on gear. So I put load on the front rest, being the rifle weight always against the movement. See, taking out of equation any gear potential flaws, and shooting only with conscious aiming and automatic movements, I can take care of conditions.
    I can tell, I'm intelectual tired after a target. If it doesn't happen, my focus wasn't good enough.

    I always shoot a target left bottom, zig-zag up (20-25, 19-16, 11-15, 10-6 and 1-5) until finish. I do 2~3 shots and pause. Look around see wind trend, and if needed 1~2 sighters, then start again.
    I do the same whatever the rifle, or discipline.

    Confidence is key. And I can say - I'm a repetition guy.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •