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Thread: Closing cam

  1. #1
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    May 2010
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    Bolt Drop

    Will your action bolt drop like this?

    http://www.facebook.com/flavio.fare....83415198361740

    TKH (4628)
    Last edited by tonykharper; 01-19-2022 at 11:05 AM.

  2. #2
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    Jun 2014
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    Oh, oh,... Flavio's perfect manufacturing!
    It's a pity he stop producing rimfire actions a long time ago.

  3. #3
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    Mount Pleasant, Wisconsin USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonykharper View Post
    Will your action close like this?

    http://www.facebook.com/flavio.fare....83415198361740

    TKH (4628)
    Wow! I am speechless.....

  4. #4
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    Ohio - Land of the "Mogs"
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    Tight tolerances and many hours of hand finish work.
    Impressive.
    But does that lead to better performance? I ask because I do not know.

  5. #5
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    Bolt closing Jeff Patterson

    Please take a look at the video and watch how easy it is for Jeff to close his bolt.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KaBHavEtqc

    TKH (4628)

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eidolon View Post
    Tight tolerances and many hours of hand finish work.
    Impressive.
    But does that lead to better performance? I ask because I do not know.
    Eidolon,

    In my experience anything that makes a rifle easier, and more consistent/reliable to operate helps!

    The shooting process has enough for one to concentrate on without fiddling with a hard closing bolt.

    If you have to use your thumb to push the round (s) in far enough in to close the action, some rounds more than others, it distracts from your primary mission of hitting those dots.

    But a better way to think of it may be: If an action can be made to function smoothly and reliably why would one ever be happy with something less?

    TKH (4628)

  7. #7
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    upstate, N.Y.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eidolon View Post
    Tight tolerances and many hours of hand finish work.
    Impressive.
    But does that lead to better performance? I ask because I do not know.
    It appears this to be a CF action without fire control in place. You buy most CFBR actions, BAT machine in particular, probably the most widely shot, they all do that.Great machine work, no hand finishing. All of them, SS, CM, melonited or not. all my BATís do that, my Farley, even my early Viper.

  8. #8
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    upstate, N.Y.
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    Tony,
    Another nice topic, another question.
    I understand the WLM school and your point about distraction. I have a gun which require a modest push to easily cam over. Have you any opinions as to whether that alone potentially results in lower accuracy?
    Over time, I have found it becomes 2nd nature. I can shoot a card in 4 minutes if need be and one single plus, with practice you can feel when the throat has built crap and requires cleaning out, but thatís just me.

  9. #9
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    Feb 2012
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    Tony, A pre 64 model 70 will do the same thing, open the bolt and tilt the muzzle down and the bolt will close and the bolt handle will fall down and it was with a complete bolt ..... no big deal and the bolt is running over a follower in the Mag. A statement made then was when a model 70 was broke in a Remington was worn out...... jim
    Last edited by jim1K; 01-19-2022 at 01:15 PM.

  10. #10
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    636
    Quote Originally Posted by tim View Post
    It appears this to be a CF action without fire control in place. You buy most CFBR actions, BAT machine in particular, probably the most widely shot, they all do that.Great machine work, no hand finishing. All of them, SS, CM, melonited or not. all my BATís do that, my Farley, even my early Viper.
    Tim,

    You are correct, centerfire actions do this. Well, those that aren't bound up.

    The thing I was pointing out was how smooth the bolt falls and closes. Most centerfire actions will slam shut when you pick them up and point them down.

    Rimfire actions usually don't have an opening (extraction) cam, or much of a closing cam therefore their bolt will fall but not turn and close. Again, most just slam down with no particular fluid motion..

    Many new owners spend a lot of time trying to get their bolt to feel good when opening/closing. Given enough time they usually get there. But rarely ever get as smooth as the Flavio in the video.

    This goes to the quality of the action.

    TKH (4628)
    Last edited by tonykharper; 01-19-2022 at 02:30 PM.

  11. #11
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    He certainly does great work, apparently quite the interesting fellow as well. One of the guys from Harts is a friend of his from Super Shoot and was invited to hunt Chamois with him in the Italian alps. Guy is in his 70ís and goes up the mountains about as fast as the goats.

  12. #12
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    636
    Quote Originally Posted by jim1K View Post
    Tony, A pre 64 model 70 will do the same thing, open the bolt and tilt the muzzle down and the bolt will close and the bolt handle will fall down and it was with a complete bolt ..... no big deal and the bolt is running over a follower in the Mag. A statement made then was when a model 70 was broke in a Remington was worn out...... jim
    Jim,

    I have no doubt a pre-64 Model 70 will do this. But rarely will they do it as smooth as the one in the video.

    The thing was pointing out is our rimfire actions rarely close as smooth and are often a point of frustration.

    If you have any tips on how to make our rimfire actions perform better, please post them here.

    TKH (4628)

  13. #13
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    May 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim View Post
    Tony,
    Another nice topic, another question.
    I understand the WLM school and your point about distraction. I have a gun which require a modest push to easily cam over. Have you any opinions as to whether that alone potentially results in lower accuracy?
    Over time, I have found it becomes 2nd nature. I can shoot a card in 4 minutes if need be and one single plus, with practice you can feel when the throat has built crap and requires cleaning out, but thatís just me.
    Tim,

    I believe shooters can learn to overcome a great many things and still perform to some level.

    Shooting is somewhat of a mental thing, if you can focus all of your attention on the task at hand, rather than other annoying details, it has to be somewhat easier.

    Some of us have as much as we can deal with just getting the target shot on time.

    That said, if you can operate the rifle while shooting your target, I would say you have learned to overcome whatever distractions your set up has. But I would also wonder what if 100% of your attention was on task

    would you not perform better? I think most would.

    TKH (4628)

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonykharper View Post
    Jim,

    I have no doubt a pre-64 Model 70 will do this. But rarely will they do it as smooth as the one in the video.

    The thing was pointing out is our rimfire actions rarely close as smooth and are often a point of frustration.

    If you have any tips on how to make our rimfire actions perform better, please post them here.

    TKH (4628)
    I don't have a custom action that won't do the same without a huge bolt handle on it. they will all close nice and slow with the right lube on them. Closing cam what is that ? Cocking cam means more in smoothness and speed and not upsetting the rifle in the bags, that is why 3 lug actions suffer.... Jim

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim1K View Post
    I don't have a custom action that won't do the same without a huge bolt handle on it. they will all close nice and slow with the right lube on them. Closing cam what is that ? Cocking cam means more in smoothness and speed and not upsetting the rifle in the bags, that is why 3 lug actions suffer.... Jim
    Jim,

    Which rimfire action are you using?

    Closing cam is the cam (s) in the action body or the bolt lugs that assist in closing the action. Cocking ramps/cams certainly have an effect on cocking the bolt.

    The longer the bolt lift, the longer the ramp, the smoother the bolt operates. As you mentioned three lugs have a shorter, steeper ramp, and that makes for a harder bolt lift.

    Add to that a strong firing pin spring and you can get to a rifle that upsets the bags when opening.

    As in most things a balance has to be found for best performance.

    TKH (4628)

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