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Thread: Bump shoulder with Redding 30BR Body Die for 6 BR

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by WSnyder View Post
    ... 4Mesh ......
    A man of many and great talents.

    He sent me a composite photograph of his property which is still in my computers somewhere....... a photograph of like 5-600 acres of wooded hills which fill the screen and across which you panned your mouse wherein you cannot find the breaks. It's like setting and looking over 30-35 degrees of landscape

  2. #17
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    Ohh, and sorry Pete for not commenting directly on your mandrels idea. I quit with the mandrels 30yrs ago

    mandrills I still enjoy, noisy though!

    and proboscis monkeys

  3. #18
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    And Me thinking

    Quote Originally Posted by alinwa View Post
    Ohh, and sorry Pete for not commenting directly on your mandrels idea. I quit with the mandrels 30yrs ago

    mandrills I still enjoy, noisy though!

    and proboscis monkeys
    I have been Against the Grain all these years! I got to tell ya Al, I like what I'm seeing. You do whatever floats your boat.

    Pete

  4. #19
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    I see

    Quote Originally Posted by alinwa View Post
    well that was kinda' embarrassing to watch......

    on several levels

    and no Pete, I don't know how to say this, but I'm not the one embarrassed
    I don't know you or Speedy so it's hard for me to judge.

    Pete

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Wass View Post
    I have been Against the Grain all these years! I got to tell ya Al, I like what I'm seeing. You do whatever floats your boat.

    Pete
    I'm completely with you as regards "do what works for you" Pete!

    AND I'm completely with you on going against the grain.

    If mandrels are solving a problem for you, or making something more consistent for you or whatever..... "use them" is my mantra. I used to deal with a bad back. And most of my friends also...... we all tried everything and sometimes made stuff up.....with mixed success. And some stuff worked for some and not for others.....I'll never forget one of my buddies saying during an argument "I don't care if they cover me with molasses, roll me in feathers, send me out to dance widdershins at midnite and sleep on the ground to let the dogs lick me clean..... IF IT WORKS FOR ME then it's good!!"

    Hunting season is fast upon us so I continually get the question "what's the BEST die or reloading press???" And my reply is "whichever one makes you happy"

    And please note that I'm not and was never arguing with you about the mandrels per se, I was noting that the Redding 'S' die was designed to solve a problem that existed many years ago, and that it came from the benchrest community as do most all accuracy innovations and that IMO bring stuff from looser disciplines into the benchrest realm is kinda' getting the horse and cart mixed up. I didn't comment on the mandreling thread directly because I didn't want to in any way disagree.... if it's working well for you then BRAVO for passing it along

    that is what a discussion forum is for, discussion

  6. #21
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    It's interesting

    Quote Originally Posted by alinwa View Post
    I'm completely with you as regards "do what works for you" Pete!

    AND I'm completely with you on going against the grain.

    If mandrels are solving a problem for you, or making something more consistent for you or whatever..... "use them" is my mantra. I used to deal with a bad back. And most of my friends also...... we all tried everything and sometimes made stuff up.....with mixed success. And some stuff worked for some and not for others.....I'll never forget one of my buddies saying during an argument "I don't care if they cover me with molasses, roll me in feathers, send me out to dance widdershins at midnite and sleep on the ground to let the dogs lick me clean..... IF IT WORKS FOR ME then it's good!!"

    Hunting season is fast upon us so I continually get the question "what's the BEST die or reloading press???" And my reply is "whichever one makes you happy"

    And please note that I'm not and was never arguing with you about the mandrels per se, I was noting that the Redding 'S' die was designed to solve a problem that existed many years ago, and that it came from the benchrest community as do most all accuracy innovations and that IMO bring stuff from looser disciplines into the benchrest realm is kinda' getting the horse and cart mixed up. I didn't comment on the mandreling thread directly because I didn't want to in any way disagree.... if it's working well for you then BRAVO for passing it along

    that is what a discussion forum is for, discussion
    that that a big part of the shooting community is discovering something you gave up on 30 years ago, I must say. I guess one could conclude there is nothing new under the sun, eh and things have a way of being re-discovered, given enough time. Most people active in shooting today weren't shooting 30 years ago, me included. I don't know why you gave up on mandrills but I find them to be ducky so I'll likely keep at it.

    Pete

  7. #22
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    Pete, as you probably know, I fireform my brass with Bullseye and a wax plug . I do not run a mandrill through my brass until after the first fireforming. I do use a mandrill before neck turning and final fireforming. Being as I was in the carbide neck bushing business many years ago, I control my sizing with carbide bushings. Yes, I have more sizes of bushings to do this than most.

  8. #23
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    Me too...... got lots of sizes of bushes

    But here's the deal, whether you squinch to final size from the OUTSIDE or swell to final size from the INSIDE you must work the brass. And you must overwork it enough that it springs back to the correct final size......The brass is ALREADY oversized so when I squeeze 'er down to shape it's done in one operation, one working of the brass.

    To use a mandrel one must first size the blown out neck down to undersized then size it back up to fit. Not only an extra step but twice as many workings on the brass.

    I want my cases to size, seat, release 50 times or more EXACTLY the same.

    I can achieve this easily using outside-only techniques

  9. #24
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    The current thinking

    Quote Originally Posted by alinwa View Post
    Me too...... got lots of sizes of bushes

    But here's the deal, whether you squinch to final size from the OUTSIDE or swell to final size from the INSIDE you must work the brass. And you must overwork it enough that it springs back to the correct final size......The brass is ALREADY oversized so when I squeeze 'er down to shape it's done in one operation, one working of the brass.

    To use a mandrel one must first size the blown out neck down to undersized then size it back up to fit. Not only an extra step but twice as many workings on the brass.

    I want my cases to size, seat, release 50 times or more EXACTLY the same.

    I can achieve this easily using outside-only techniques
    and I'm in agreement is bushing push the case neck down and it will spring back later and not much later. this spring back will increase ones seating depth to whatever the spring back is. I have always weighed powder to the curnel and seated bullets to exactly length my testing has told me gives me one bullet hole or as close as I can get to it. Often this requires being exactly on both the powder weight and seating depth. Prior to recently, I have done the same as Y'all have but I am a believer now in pulling the necks out instead of pushing them in. I have plenty of time to load my ammo for shoots so one step isn't a killer and I anneal every 5 firings so I don't worry about overworking. With regard to seating, I measure loaded rounds close to where the bullet will touch the lands with a Vernier with a comparator head on it. I also have a collet bullet puller in my turret press so I
    adjust each round if it needs to be adjusted. there are no lots of bullets that have the same exact ogive slope, ergo, one must adjust them. For absolute accuracy its the crums that matter most. You don't get them by not being exactly exact.

    Pete
    Last edited by Pete Wass; 09-17-2021 at 07:48 PM.

  10. #25
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    The inside of the neck has more influence on things than most realize.

    Good shootin'. -Al

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Nyhus View Post
    The inside of the neck has more influence on things than most realize.

    Good shootin'. -Al
    Well Yeahhh...... imagine if you will a case with no neck? Or perhaps a very SHORT neck like only an eighth inch long.....

    NO WAY!!! That'll NEVER work! Can't even get 'er to seal up for release.... and NO WAY it could ever SHOOT good....

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Wass View Post
    ...............this spring back will increase ones seating depth to whatever the spring back is..............
    I'm not sure what this means, I haven't experienced this.








    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Wass View Post
    For absolute accuracy its the crums that matter most. You don't get them by not being exactly exact.

    Pete
    TOADally agree.... but some of the crumbs I'm anal about are different, and mechanical in many cases. I am very excited to spend the day in the shop today utilizing buckets of Loctite 64000 and 680. This GREEN stuff seems to hold stuff from moving/vibrating perty good! Better than any epoxy, better than RockSett, better than any of the "metal building and chocking" grouts I've used so far.....not comparable in any way to the wimpy Loctite products I've been familiar with......... egg'citing!

    Also used Sugru on my coffee cup and it's working as advertised, bonus! Finding an item which lives up to it's claims just makes me all warm and fuzzy

    I like 'exactly exact'...... that's a lot less common than most folks realize. Metrology is tricky stuff.... like herding snakes with a rope

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