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Thread: Thinking About F Class

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    29

    Thinking About F Class

    One of the guys at our club has been after me to try F Class, particularly F/TR. Over the winter, I'll completely make up my mind, but I'm leaning heavily toward trying the sport.

    I currently own a Remington XR100, chambered in .308 Winchester. For those who may be unfamiliar with this rifle, it's a non-catalogued rifle offered by Gander Mountain. Catalogued versions were chambered in .204 Ruger, .223 Remington, and .22-250 Remington. It has a thumbhole stock, XP100 action, 26" barrel, and Remington XR trigger.

    My particular rifle has a .308 barrel with a 1-10" twist. Out of the box, it's one of the most acccurate rifles I've ever owned. Mounted on top is a Bushnell 4200, 8-32x40 scope. For starters, it seems like enough rifle to be competitive.

    I've also been looking at the Savage F-Class F/TR, and I've also fired my friend's, chambered in .308, and it's quite a nice rifle, especially that it's competitive right out of the box.

    My question about the Savage concerns the barrel twist. The catalogue shows a 1-12" twist, a bit slower than my Remington. At greater distances, with heavier bullets, it would seem that the Remington has the edge. Am I over-thinking the differences? My plan would be to use 168 gr SMK's.

    Follows is a picture of a recent group fired at 200 yards. The load is a 168gr SMK, 41.5gr IMR 8208 XBR. The group is .212" and .101 moa (center-to-center). The max size of the group is .507" and .242 moa (On Target Precision Calculator software). So, the rifle is capable of excellent accuracy. (This group was off the bench, and not prone. I have shot 100, 7x with this rifle from a bipod)


  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Jacksonville,Florida
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    94
    pendennis...Your group is FANTASTIC!!! Please advise as to whether your group is 3 shots or 5 shots. Either way it is AWESOME!!!

  3. #3
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    Jan 2007
    Location
    Michigan
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    Quote Originally Posted by gpoldblue View Post
    pendennis...Your group is FANTASTIC!!! Please advise as to whether your group is 3 shots or 5 shots. Either way it is AWESOME!!!
    It's a five-shot group @ 200 yards

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Nhulunbuy, Northern Territory, Australia
    Posts
    4

    nice group..

    You'll go alright with groups like that - plenty good enough to give F Class a try anyway

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Central Arkansas
    Posts
    539
    First - shoot what you have now and enjoy t he sport. Except the 168 gr SMK will NOT shoot out to 1000 yards as it goes subsonic before there. You will need to shoot 175 gr SMK's.

    Second, the Savage F/TR stock is an abomination. The add-on cheek rest is plastic held in place by two wood screws. If you look at the Savages, look at the BR model as the stock is MUCH better.

    Third, If I were to want a Savage for F/TR, I would buy a LRPV action and an aftermarket barrel such as a Pac-Nor and go to Savage Shooters Supply and get a stock from them. You will save money and end up with a better rifle.

    I shoot Savages (have a bunch) and love them all. My current F/TR gun is a 110 BVSS rebarrelled with a Krieger 30" barrel and smith by Mr Larry Racine ( http://www.lprgunsmith.com/index.htm ). He is a great fellow to get to know and have Savage work done.

    George

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Weld Cty (CO)
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    491

    168 gr

    I'm shooting 168 gr Hornady A-max in a Remington 1:10 twist .308 Win and it will hold a 1 MOA waterline at 1,000 yards. I'm using 45.5 grs of Varget (2800 fps), Federal GM210M primers and Lapua Brass at 2.94" OAL. Now if I could just figure out the wind - nhk

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Petersburg, in
    Posts
    6
    you will need a diferent scope if you are going to shoot 1000 yards, the Bushnell 4200's have good glass and are clear, but do not have enough elevation adjustment. they have app. 24 moa adjustment total, and you will need app. 30-35. even if you shim your base to use all 24, you will still be short, if you plan on 600 you might be fine.


    also, the 168 smk won't make a 1000 supersonic, a better choice would be 175 smk or 175 or 185 berger, all these should work fine in either twist barrel you mentioned
    Last edited by Jeff T; 11-13-2010 at 01:42 PM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Weld Cty (CO)
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    491

    Elevation

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff T View Post
    you will need a diferent scope if you are going to shoot 1000 yards, the Bushnell 4200's have good glass and are clear, but do not have enough elevation adjustment. they have app. 24 moa adjustment total, and you will need app. 30-35. even if you shim your base to use all 24, you will still be short, if you plan on 600 you might be fine.
    Sounds right. I have a 20 MOA base and with a 200 yard zero my come up for 1,000 is 28 MOA. - nhk

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    flagstaff
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    159
    my son in law wins all the time witha 6-24 4200 bushnel scope. often against others that are more expensive. pedennis- you need to go shoot in match. that is more than enough accuracy . quite a few whoo shoot 308 shot either a 175,185 , or a 155. i do not shoot F-TR because i like to shoot of of a pedistal not a bi-pod. roninflag

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    68
    You are shooting well enough to compets in Mich, if you were from Minnesota I would have told you F-class was recently outlawed by the state as I would not want to compete with (lose to) you as you really are shooting well.

    We seem to get a little mixed up when the term 168 g SMK comes up. It is well known that the 168 SMK does not do well at 1,000 yards when fired out of a 308, that does not mean that other 168 gr bullets will not perform well at that range. Physics does not mind that the 168 SMK weighs 168 g what it does not like apparently in the angle of the boattail, so other 168 g bullets are probably not cursed with dreadful LR results. The 175 SMK is a great performer in the 308 and can reach 1,000 yards supersonically easy with a barrel of 22 inches or better. The 175 g SMK is even reasonably well behaved is many guns as it transitions between faster and slower than the speed of sound.

    wade

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Weld Cty (CO)
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    491

    168 gr bullets

    Quote Originally Posted by wadebrown View Post
    We seem to get a little mixed up when the term 168 g SMK comes up. It is well known that the 168 SMK does not do well at 1,000 yards when fired out of a 308, that does not mean that other 168 gr bullets will not perform well at that range. Physics does not mind that the 168 SMK weighs 168 g what it does not like apparently in the angle of the boattail, so other 168 g bullets are probably not cursed with dreadful LR results.
    I knew about the 168 gr MK and wanted to shoot a 168 gr bullet, that's why I went with the A-Max. Cost was a factor too. Actually I wanted to shoot the 155 gr Palma bullets, which I already had left over from another rifle, but the throat was too long on my new .308. - nhk
    Last edited by nhkuehl; 11-14-2010 at 12:35 PM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    64
    Shoot what you have first!

    A few years ago I decided I wanted to try high power. I had a custom space gun built by one of the best gunsmiths in the US. Turns out that even with a lens I could not see the target at 600 yards. Sold the gun and stopped shooting for a couple of years, Bought a Savage F-12 and tried F-Class and just love it. The point is if I would have tried high power without spending all that money I would have quickly realized I could not do it.

    So don't spend a lot of money until you have tried it.

    -Chip-

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Morrisonville, NY
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    159
    Quote Originally Posted by nhkuehl View Post
    I knew about the 168 gr MK and wanted to shoot a 168 gr bullet, that's why I went with the A-Max. Cost was a factor too. Actually I wanted to shoot the 155 gr Palma bullets, which I already had left over from another rifle, but the throat was too long on my new .308. - nhk
    I've managed to hold 2.880 OAL with the Sierra 155 PALMA bullet, Savage throats are long also.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Weld Cty (CO)
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    491

    Seating depth, length

    Quote Originally Posted by Taildrag15X View Post
    I've managed to hold 2.880 OAL with the Sierra 155 PALMA bullet, Savage throats are long also.
    My 168 gr A-Max bullets are jumped 0.015" for an OAL of 2.940". The bearing surface of the 155 gr Palma bullets was in only in the neck about 1/8" and I wasn't comfortable about that or shooting a bearing surface that short in relation to the throat. It may just be my opinion, but I think that would lead to accelerated throat erosion. I would normally crimp a bullet in that short or if I was jumping it over 0.015", but I've been advised of the error of my ways. - nhk

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    York, north of England, UK
    Posts
    16
    While the 175gn SMK will work at 1,000yd, there are very much more efficient (higher BC) bullets available for 800yd and beyond - why risk losing extra points every time you get the wind a bit wrong? The 175 and 185gn Berger BT Long-Range models are very good performers in F/TR. The older but still very effective 190 and 200gn SMKs are excellent long-range performers too and over here at any rate are cheaper than the Bergers. IMHO, the 185gn Berger BT L-R is the best F/TR bullet for .308W. Many American Fullbore Rifle shooters prefer the 175gn version though - it shoots almost as well in the wind as the 185, but produces less felt recoil which is more of an issue for them than for Effers.

    On the basis of the 168gn SMK group you've posted go with this rifle and scope and get the experience in.

    Laurie,
    York, England

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