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Thread: Stiff bolt closing

  1. #1
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    Stiff bolt closing

    P1000 action. Stiff bolt closing on an empty chamber. It clicks down off of the primary extraction surface, then stops at the sear pick up, then needs more pressure to close moving firing pin slightly rearward.. Any ideas what might be the cause? Jewell bench rest trigger, no safety, set approximately 8 ounces.
    Last edited by Rflshootr; 10-23-2020 at 01:19 PM.

  2. #2
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    no mounting screw interference on the bolt head ?
    ( i do not know the action, but a common issue)
    Quote Originally Posted by Rflshootr View Post
    P1000 action. Stiff bolt closing on an empty chamber. It clicks down off of the primary extraction surface, then stops at the sear pick up, then needs more pressure to close moving firing pin slightly rearward.. Any ideas what might be the cause? Jewell bench rest trigger, no safety, set approximately 8 ounces.

  3. #3
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    No. Not even close to that point. It seem to be at the point where the sear/cocking piece hand off and lug lead ramps are on the down stroke of the bolt handle.
    Last edited by Rflshootr; 10-24-2020 at 03:10 AM.

  4. #4
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    If you remove the trigger, does the problem go away?

  5. #5
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    I pulled the firing pin (same thing) and yep, the bolt is as floppy as any other action. No drag whatsoever.
    Last edited by Rflshootr; 10-24-2020 at 11:27 AM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rflshootr View Post
    P1000 action. Stiff bolt closing on an empty chamber. It clicks down off of the primary extraction surface, then stops at the sear pick up, then needs more pressure to close moving firing pin slightly rearward.. Any ideas what might be the cause? Jewell bench rest trigger, no safety, set approximately 8 ounces.
    You describe a bit of "cock on close" where closing the bolt moves the firing pin rearward slightly. This is actually designed in to Remington actions and most similar pattern actions that do not have a trigger hanger. Many gunsmiths modify parts to reduce this for smoother bolt closing but it can be tricky and lead to other issues. The trick is to maintain enough firing pin travel for reliable ignition.

  7. #7
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    OK. I'll bite.....how is this done? Is it a trigger modification or a cocking piece modification? Both?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rflshootr View Post
    OK. I'll bite.....how is this done? Is it a trigger modification or a cocking piece modification? Both?
    The short answer is that material is removed from the cocking piece. Doing this reduces firing pin fall and can lead to poor ignition. You can measure the actual firing pin travel by measuring the difference in position of the back of the cocking piece when cocked and un-cocked. if you can remove a bit of material and retain about .230 of travel you will probably be OK. There are some guys that have this down to a science and can do more to increase firing pin strike with a neutral hand off. Alex Wheeler may be one, Chad Dixon, I'm sure there are others. Since I use Remington actions only for hunting rifles, I can live with the little extra effort on bolt closing. My BR guns are BATs and Kelbly and they have very slick bolt lift.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by SGS View Post
    The short answer is that material is removed from the cocking piece. Doing this reduces firing pin fall and can lead to poor ignition. You can measure the actual firing pin travel by measuring the difference in position of the back of the cocking piece when cocked and un-cocked. if you can remove a bit of material and retain about .230 of travel you will probably be OK. There are some guys that have this down to a science and can do more to increase firing pin strike with a neutral hand off. Alex Wheeler may be one, Chad Dixon, I'm sure there are others. Since I use Remington actions only for hunting rifles, I can live with the little extra effort on bolt closing. My BR guns are BATs and Kelbly and they have very slick bolt lift.

    A Remington pin fall is approximately 1/4" & is cock on open & cock on close....until it's corrected.

    Drilling a 3/32" cross pin hole & parting off the aft end of said firing pin is elementary to increase pin fall if/when striker to sear hand off is accomplished.....correctly.

  10. #10
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    Sticky Bolt

    The problem you describe is common on Remington type actions.
    As the bolt is inserted into the action and the handle pressed down the firing pin engages the trigger sear,
    with further downward motion of the bolt handle, it appears that the firing pin is extending out of the bolt.
    This is a misconception. Once the pin and the trigger sear engage the pin can no longer move.
    What you are seeing is the bolt lugs engaging and pushing the bolt forward.
    With the pin held in place and the bolt moving forward compressing the pin spring approximately another 0.035” to 0.037” .
    This is what is causing that last bit of closing pressure.
    Not much can safely be done to remedy this problem.
    When I feel my bolt getting a bit sticky I take it apart, clean it, oil it lightly and put it back together.

    Bob

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob1949 View Post
    The problem you describe is common on Remington type actions.
    As the bolt is inserted into the action and the handle pressed down the firing pin engages the trigger sear,
    with further downward motion of the bolt handle, it appears that the firing pin is extending out of the bolt.
    This is a misconception. Once the pin and the trigger sear engage the pin can no longer move.
    What you are seeing is the bolt lugs engaging and pushing the bolt forward.
    With the pin held in place and the bolt moving forward compressing the pin spring approximately another 0.035” to 0.037” .
    This is what is causing that last bit of closing pressure.
    Not much can safely be done to remedy this problem.
    When I feel my bolt getting a bit sticky I take it apart, clean it, oil it lightly and put it back together.

    Bob
    That's a little better explanation than mine. It can be corrected for, just requires some expertise, Maybe I'll tackle one of mine and see if I can get it right,

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob1949 View Post
    The problem you describe is common on Remington type actions.
    As the bolt is inserted into the action and the handle pressed down the firing pin engages the trigger sear,
    with further downward motion of the bolt handle, it appears that the firing pin is extending out of the bolt.
    This is a misconception. Once the pin and the trigger sear engage the pin can no longer move.
    What you are seeing is the bolt lugs engaging and pushing the bolt forward.
    With the pin held in place and the bolt moving forward compressing the pin spring approximately another 0.035” to 0.037” .
    This is what is causing that last bit of closing pressure.
    Not much can safely be done to remedy this problem.
    When I feel my bolt getting a bit sticky I take it apart, clean it, oil it lightly and put it back together.

    Bob


    A dial indicator will eliminate all of ones misconceptions of striker to sear hand off.

  13. #13
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    Leave it like it is

    Hi Scott, your right. There are three things that can be done.
    You can shorten the pin engagement
    or you can take some metal off the trigger
    or take a little off both.
    But whatever you do will require removing at least 0.035” .
    I wouldn't try it without a good grinding machine, one with handles.

    Bob

  14. #14
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    So from what I measure, I'm getting .270/.271 of firing pin fall. Does that sound a bit excessive?

  15. #15
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    Pin Drop

    Quote Originally Posted by Rflshootr View Post
    So from what I measure, I'm getting .270/.271 of firing pin fall. Does that sound a bit excessive?
    Your pin drop does seem a little large.
    Take the bolt out of the action, drop the pin and measure the distance the pin extends from the back of the bolt #A.
    Now insert the bolt into the action and push the handle down to lock.
    Now measure the pin distance again #B.
    Subtract #A from #B and that’s your pin drop.
    My Remington 40-X measures 0.220”.

    Bob
    Last edited by Bob1949; 11-03-2020 at 09:13 PM.

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