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Thread: Legality of selling a home finished action

  1. #16
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    My dad has been building actions for himself since the 80's. He researched the legality and to echo what has been said above:

    1) You can manufacture a receiver for yourself. No serial number is required
    2) If you want to transfer the receiver, you need a manufactuer's license. The action then would have to be serial numbered
    3) The transfer would then go through the normal FFL channels.

    -Lee
    www.singleactions.com

  2. #17
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    Just my thoughts

    It is sometimes easier to ask for forgiveness than to get permission.

  3. #18
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    Possible input for your question

    Quote Originally Posted by FM7RUM View Post
    Wanting opinions is it legal to sell a home finished centerfire action online and ship it to the buyers ffl is it legal it is a hall copy 30 br shoots great just dont need it anymore!

    Thanks Fred
    In America's Freedom magazine August 2020 page 16-17 there is inforfmation that might be revelant to you. The article by Clayton Cramer is titled "What's all this hype about "Ghost Guns"?
    Centerfire

  4. #19
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    Jul 2005
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    574
    Quote Originally Posted by antelopedundee View Post
    Why would an FFL holder want to record a firearm that has an illegitimate serial number? Since you claim to be the maker you would have to have an FFL yourself to even legally produce it I would think.
    NO.
    You can make as many rifles or handguns as you want for personal use.
    Some states try and control this.
    You can then sell the gun as long as you did NOT make it with anticipation of selling it.
    It does not need a serial number.

    I have multiple guns that have "NSN" (No Serial Number) on their paperwork.
    Some are old, others are various home built guns.

    Guns did not requires a serial number before GCA '68.
    Though many had them anyway.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hippy View Post
    Not sure now with all the Putter's in the late 70's thru early 90's I worked for a large wholesaler and on occasion we would get a call from a ATF concerning a weapon that we had received from them and they wanting to know to whom it was sold.
    If it was sold to a stocking dealer then they too would be called ---if sold to Joh Q. Public the trail ended there

    From what the ATF told me @ that time once the firearm reached a NON FFL holder the trail went cold

    Jim
    IIRC the weapon used in the Florida nightclub shooting was traced rather quickly. They see it was made by BadAss Arms so they call BadAss Arms and BadAss says, oh we shipped that to distributor ABC, so they call ABC who says oh we sold that to DumDon's Gun shop so they call DumDon's who says yeah we sold it to Wuhan Smirnoff who as it turns out was the shooter. Easier to trace something made recently than made 30 years ago. How long would it take the ATF to search the boxes and boxes of 4473s from a dealer who went OOB more than 30 years ago, assuming that they could even find the boxes and boxes.
    Luckily for them the shooters tend to use recently acquired firearms.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM7RUM View Post
    Wanting opinions is it legal to sell a home finished centerfire action online and ship it to the buyers ffl is it legal it is a hall copy 30 br shoots great just dont need it anymore!

    Thanks Fred
    You should simply call the FFL holder suggested by the buyer and ask him, since he is the one who would be recording the transfer. Selling it online. Are you selling through a message board classified ad perchance?

  7. #22
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    Nov 2012
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    67
    Quote Originally Posted by antelopedundee View Post
    You should simply call the FFL holder suggested by the buyer and ask him, since he is the one who would be recording the transfer. Selling it online. Are you selling through a message board classified ad perchance?
    Do not have for sale yet just thinking about it/would like too!

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Martin View Post
    My dad has been building actions for himself since the 80's. He researched the legality and to echo what has been said above:

    1) You can manufacture a receiver for yourself. No serial number is required
    2) If you want to transfer the receiver, you need a manufactuer's license. The action then would have to be serial numbered
    3) The transfer would then go through the normal FFL channels.

    -Lee
    www.singleactions.com
    Lee, that sounds entirely too reasonable.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
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    67
    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Martin View Post
    My dad has been building actions for himself since the 80's. He researched the legality and to echo what has been said above:

    1) You can manufacture a receiver for yourself. No serial number is required
    2) If you want to transfer the receiver, you need a manufactuer's license. The action then would have to be serial numbered
    3) The transfer would then go through the normal FFL channels.

    -Lee
    www.singleactions.com
    Lee not doubting your word but wondering if that manufacturer license requirement would change by state I know some who sold and shipped one to a ffl with no problems

  10. #25
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    No, it's a federal law dating back to the GCA of '68. Here's the ATF's latest ruling from 2015:

    https://www.atf.gov/file/11711/download

    Basically, if you "sell or distribute" your own receiver, you need a manufacturers license and the frame must be registered with a SN.

    -Lee
    www.singleactions.com

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM7RUM View Post
    Do not have for sale yet just thinking about it/would like too!
    The purchaser may need to have a permit to purchase a handgun. Per the BATF it "could" be used to make a handgun so if it didn't leave the factory as a rifle then it's not a rifle. Found that out a couple years ago when I went to pick up an action and the guy says I need to see your permit to purchase a handgun.

  12. #27
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    Ca.
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    Allot of firearms were sold at gun shows and not being registered coming in for sale or going out sold. Quite a few have also been handed down to the family and even friends over the years. Back when I was growing up there were cardboard barrels full of military surplus rifles for 25.00 at Sears and Roebucks. Most were home sporterized for hunting purposes and it was extremely popular at the time. Herters, Fajen and others catered to such things and then their was shotgun news where you could buy direct. None of these are traceable and they are out in the thousands. It was also my understanding they didn't even keep any records on long arms it was only handguns that were being kept at the time. The home crafted rifle I had is worth about 4800.00 + and per-say a prototype so possibly more. To add a serial number, name, address or anything else to it would just simply destroy its value. So it's sort of a catch 22 in regards to trying to sell it to someone else and why it back to the gentleman that I got it from.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Wynne View Post
    It is sometimes easier to ask for forgiveness than to get permission.
    It may be easier, but it's probably not better -- if the act is intentional.

  14. #29
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    Nov 2006
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    ME
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    1,777

    at the Federal level

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis.J View Post
    Allot of firearms were sold at gun shows and not being registered coming in for sale or going out sold. Quite a few have also been handed down to the family and even friends over the years. Back when I was growing up there were cardboard barrels full of military surplus rifles for 25.00 at Sears and Roebucks. Most were home sporterized for hunting purposes and it was extremely popular at the time. Herters, Fajen and others catered to such things and then their was shotgun news where you could buy direct. None of these are traceable and they are out in the thousands. It was also my understanding they didn't even keep any records on long arms it was only handguns that were being kept at the time. The home crafted rifle I had is worth about 4800.00 + and per-say a prototype so possibly more. To add a serial number, name, address or anything else to it would just simply destroy its value. So it's sort of a catch 22 in regards to trying to sell it to someone else and why it back to the gentleman that I got it from.
    there is no gun registration, except for Class III arms.

  15. #30
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    They aren't registered in terms of a national database. But a newly manufactured receiver that is transferred must have a serial number. That's what I meant by registered.

    -Lee
    www.singleactions.com

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