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Thread: Bait-and-Switch?

  1. #1
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    Bait-and-Switch?

    Due to a problem with my writing hand, I went to the doctor not long ago; he said there are three alternatives for relief: (a) an injection; (b) a small surgical procedure; and (c) a more extensive surgical procedure. I told him that I was concerned about a possible side effect of alternative (a); he said that concern would not be present with alternative (b). He also said, with (b), that I'd be able to write and use the keyboard the next day (maybe even before the end of the day of surgery). We scheduled the surgery for alternative (b).

    About a week later, I got several consent forms to sign -- one of which says, I understand...As a result of this procedure...there may be material risks of...loss of function of any limb or organ, paralysis...brain damage...or death. I told the doctor's office that I was not ready to accept those risks, and canceled the surgery.

    Bait-and-Switch?

  2. #2
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    no, but your doctor supports a lawyer and a paper mill.
    in case anything goes wrong, it was not his fault. and you agree.
    typical today.
    maybe go do some research on the procedure and decide.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
    Due to a problem with my writing hand, I went to the doctor not long ago; he said there are three alternatives for relief: (a) an injection; (b) a small surgical procedure; and (c) a more extensive surgical procedure. I told him that I was concerned about a possible side effect of alternative (a); he said that concern would not be present with alternative (b). He also said, with (b), that I'd be able to write and use the keyboard the next day (maybe even before the end of the day of surgery). We scheduled the surgery for alternative (b).

    About a week later, I got several consent forms to sign -- one of which says, I understand...As a result of this procedure...there may be material risks of...loss of function of any limb or organ, paralysis...brain damage...or death. I told the doctor's office that I was not ready to accept those risks, and canceled the surgery.

    Bait-and-Switch?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
    Due to a problem with my writing hand, I went to the doctor not long ago; he said there are three alternatives for relief: (a) an injection; (b) a small surgical procedure; and (c) a more extensive surgical procedure. I told him that I was concerned about a possible side effect of alternative (a); he said that concern would not be present with alternative (b). He also said, with (b), that I'd be able to write and use the keyboard the next day (maybe even before the end of the day of surgery). We scheduled the surgery for alternative (b).

    About a week later, I got several consent forms to sign -- one of which says, I understand...As a result of this procedure...there may be material risks of...loss of function of any limb or organ, paralysis...brain damage...or death. I told the doctor's office that I was not ready to accept those risks, and canceled the surgery.

    Bait-and-Switch?
    My first knee surgery was similar. This was just before scoping knees was much of a thing yet, so it was the old zipper up the leg kind.
    Anyway, doc says it's a serious but relatively routine knee operation. Then come the consent forms! One states that amputation may become necessary during surgery and he wanted me to sign it!!! I made it very clear that he better not cut anything any shorter than it already is without waking me up and having a little face to face about that, FIRST! I never signed that one.

  4. #4
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    Of course, the other opinion is that doctors have found such forms necessary because of the litigation of their patients.

    It seems that these days, we offer ourselves all the wriggle room we need, but demand absolute perfection of others.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsmithsr View Post
    maybe go do some research on the procedure and decide.
    Are you suggesting that my internet-based research should trump the opinion stated on my MD's form?


    Quote Originally Posted by John Kielly View Post
    Of course, the other opinion is that doctors have found such forms necessary because of the litigation of their patients.
    I suspect the MDs don't really believe some of the stuff they ask you to sign (as in the example in post # 1 above); if they did and don't thoroughly discuss it with the patient that seems to me to be very unethical. It also seems that if they don't really believe that stuff it's dishonorable to print that language on a form and insist that the patient sign.

    Except when obviously kidding, folks should say what they mean, and not say what they don't mean.
    Last edited by Hunter; 07-17-2020 at 07:05 PM.

  6. #6
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    My daughter had a light surgery some years ago to extract 2 wisdom teeth in her inferior jaw. We also had to sign that we agree the whole thing might turn to an horror movie, but not THAT MUCH.

    Here in France, they definitely are in the CYA attitude, even if risk is minimal, and they say, I am not joking here, that's really true, I had it in direct live, "because of American use to have lawsuits against doctors and hospital".

    Nevertheless, the horror show was located mainly in the jaw, where this or that nerve had minimal risk to be dammaged, national stats are 1/x hundreds or million (I do not remember). All this was written in the agreement I signed for her.


    Meanwhile, in heavier surgery, they have you lay on a razor edge and keep your balance at best in between life and death while they cut this and sew that or change that OEM part for an aftermarket one. Risk is always there, the immediate and violent reaction to the deep anaesthetic drug being quite a high risk.

    What's a pity is the bureaucrat work, covering EVERY potential risks with a minimum of paper forms. So you go to hospital to have a nail filed BUT you must agree you might lost both lungs and liver during the manucure.


    What the OP describes looks like carpian canal, which is quite a classic for people who have been working a lot on a keybord with their fingers higher than their wrists. My wife had it, tried delayed cortisone injections and choose the surgery some weeks later. She was IN the surgery room at noon, OUT 20 minutes later and out of hospital at 3PM. A nurse came maybe 4-6 days to keep an eye on the healing process and that was all. Some 15 years later, she's still happy with it.


    With regards to pre-op agreement forms, I would appreciate the input of these Gentlemen who had or are having dental heavy work at ClearView. I understood ClearView is quite high end. Did they have to agree for the loss of a testicle or two during the dental op' ?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
    Due to a problem with my writing hand, I went to the doctor not long ago; he said there are three alternatives for relief: (a) an injection; (b) a small surgical procedure; and (c) a more extensive surgical procedure. I told him that I was concerned about a possible side effect of alternative (a); he said that concern would not be present with alternative (b). He also said, with (b), that I'd be able to write and use the keyboard the next day (maybe even before the end of the day of surgery). We scheduled the surgery for alternative (b).

    About a week later, I got several consent forms to sign -- one of which says, I understand...As a result of this procedure...there may be material risks of...loss of function of any limb or organ, paralysis...brain damage...or death. I told the doctor's office that I was not ready to accept those risks, and canceled the surgery.

    Bait-and-Switch?
    What side effect/s were you concerned about with alternative A?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by antelopedundee View Post
    What side effect/s were you concerned about with alternative A?
    Blood clot -- but, I'm beginning to hope that concern is just a figment of my imagination.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
    Blood clot -- but, I'm beginning to hope that concern is just a figment of my imagination.
    You will go through life with no elective surgeries worrying about such things. Lawyers!!&

  10. #10
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    Ask the doctor which procedure will fix your hand completely and schedule it. You're debilitated to some extent and that needs to be fixed completely. Just do it!! Damn the torpedoes!!!

  11. #11
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    Consent

    Quote Originally Posted by OliveOil View Post
    With regards to pre-op agreement forms, I would appreciate the input of these Gentlemen who had or are having dental heavy work at ClearView. I understood ClearView is quite high end. Did they have to agree for the loss of a testicle or two during the dental op' ?




    Hi Oliver, Here in the US,"Clear Choice" is the name of the implant center,I think you're referring to.

    Patient consent is required, by Law, for most Medical procedures here in the US. The post-operative risks are thoroughly explained in a brochure that you take home and review, to help you make an informed decision, Price for treatment is included

    Collateral testicular damage, from the procedure, was not included in the brochure However, any perceived risks, not included in the brochure can be discussed with the doctors. The Risk that concerned me most was anesthesia or sedation, which is common with oral surgery. Both are serious medical procedures. For me It was a family decision. Its been three years since I had it done. Money well spent.

    Its my understanding that The signed consent form, does not relieve the Doctor of Malpractice liability.


    Glenn

  12. #12
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    Wilbur

    Welcome back!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdean View Post
    You will go through life with no elective surgeries worrying about such things.
    At this red-hot time in my life, elective surgeries tend to loose their appeal in light of what's said in the second paragraph of post # 1 above.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wilbur View Post
    Ask the doctor which procedure will fix your hand completely and schedule it....Damn the torpedoes!!!
    I had it scheduled; then I read the consent form. Those torpedoes bother me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chism G View Post
    Its my understanding that The signed consent form, does not relieve the Doctor of Malpractice liability.
    I'm not particularly concerned about the MD's liability; I'm concerned about my risk.

  14. #14
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    Your hand gets worse.....you get older......the " chance" of something down the road gets higher.
    What seems complicated here. These forms exist because every procedure involves some risk, and the world is full of personal injury atty's. Ask the guy how much he pays in malpractice insurance, then the forms become clearer.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim View Post
    What seems complicated here....every procedure involves some risk
    Some is not the same as material.

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