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Thread: BANG... oops you're dead

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
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    BANG... oops you're dead

    Based on recent and possible future political events gun ownership will probably again be a national issue. Politics aside there is a practical issue with firearm ownership. Based on observation I have come to believe that, if not a majority, at least a significant number of people who purchase firearms do not know how to use them, let alone safely use them. I am now convinced that to purchase a firearm you should be able to show that you can load it, unload it, make it safe, able to fire it and hit at least in the vicinity of the target. I am a lifetime member of the NRA, the Texas Rifle Association and the NBRSA . I know this smacks of gun control but lets face it; someone using a firearm in an unsafe manner is a danger to themselves, you and a potential propaganda tool for gun grabbers to use against us. I would be interested in hearing from forum readers on this subject. Is this reasonable? If so, how should it be implemented. Am I a secret undercover agent for the left? Tim

  2. #2
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    I would be more in favor of it if it was a States issue and not Federal! Maybe administered by the seller before turning the firearm
    over to the buyer. Many states have waiting periods before taking ownership so I don't see this as a major inconvenience for
    the buyer. A class could be given to several individuals by a qualified instructor at the end of the day or week, especially if they
    are buying ammo! Many people buying a gun for the first time, purchase the wrong ammo for the gun.
    Safety first and always.
    Regards,

    Joe McNeill
    SW Arkansas

  3. #3
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    Feb 2003
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    Tim,
    There is no way in this so called "Free World" that you can fix stupidity,& some stay up nights studying to be more ignorant.

    A mandatory hunter safety/concealed carry course should be a prerequisite to any firearm purchase...for all ages.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Oltersdorf View Post
    Based on recent and possible future political events gun ownership will probably again be a national issue. [It will always be a national issue.] Politics aside [that's hard to do, but if you insist, I'll go on as though you mean that] there is a practical issue with firearm ownership. Based on observation I have come to believe that, if not a majority, at least a significant number of people who purchase firearms do not know how to use them, let alone safely use them. [The same can be said about a lot of things we use on a daily basis.] I am now convinced that to purchase a firearm you should be able to show that you can load it, unload it, make it safe, able to fire it and hit at least in the vicinity of the target....I know this smacks of gun control [yes, it does, but you said to leave politics out of this] but lets face it; someone using a firearm in an unsafe manner is a danger to themselves, you [as is the unsafe use of a lot of things we use on a daily basis] and a potential propaganda tool for gun grabbers to use against us. I would be interested in hearing from forum readers on this subject. Is this reasonable? [See below.]...Am I a secret undercover agent for the left? [See below.]
    Given that we live in a "free country" (uh oh, that sounds like politics) and many of us question the motives of "Big Brother," I don't think it's reasonable to rely on some bureaucrat or politician to tell us who's safe with a gun.

    Are you a secret undercover agent for the left? Based on the underlined sentence above, it would be hard to convince me that you're "undercover."


  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Oltersdorf View Post
    Based on recent and possible future political events gun ownership will probably again be a national issue. Politics aside there is a practical issue with firearm ownership. Based on observation I have come to believe that, if not a majority, at least a significant number of people who purchase firearms do not know how to use them, let alone safely use them. I am now convinced that to purchase a firearm you should be able to show that you can load it, unload it, make it safe, able to fire it and hit at least in the vicinity of the target. I am a lifetime member of the NRA, the Texas Rifle Association and the NBRSA . I know this smacks of gun control but lets face it; someone using a firearm in an unsafe manner is a danger to themselves, you and a potential propaganda tool for gun grabbers to use against us. I would be interested in hearing from forum readers on this subject. Is this reasonable? If so, how should it be implemented. Am I a secret undercover agent for the left? Tim
    Tim, I would agree, with a couple caveats:

    -The names of those individuals at classes not be available to any State, Federal or private entity.

    -Persons administering the 'testing' not be affiliated with/employed by any State or Federal agency.

    Good shootin'. -Al

  6. #6
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    Tim, a visit to any of the public ranges, especially indoor pistol ranges, will confirm what you are stating. If it wasn’t so serious, it would be comical.

    Our 2d Amendment guarantees our right to keep and bear arms. Sometimes I wish there was a caveat to the affect......”unless you are a total moron”.

    This is a touchy subject, which generally revolves around the age old question......”but who gets to decide”.

    As responsible firearms owners, we need to lead the way in safety, training, and common sense.

  7. #7
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    Jun 2012
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    When I started hunting, "accidents" in the woods were all too common. As a youngster, I witnessed some very unsafe behavior. One group of "hunters" seemed to be playing army, running through the woods, even falling down, all while holding loaded guns and yelling.

    Thankfully, mandatory hunter education really put a dent in that sort of thing. I spent a number of years as an instructor. We covered safe handling and use of all major action types. Most students were very receptive. If not, they didn't pass.

    I can see expanding this sort of thing to all firearms users. There is still a lot of firearms owners and users that could stand some safety instruction. Some recommendations for basic courtesy wouldn't hurt either. More than once I've left the range and went home rather than be subjected to bad behavior.

  8. #8
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    Sep 2008
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    Gun ownership class in high school- mandatory safety education or you can’t buy one....

  9. #9
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    Oct 2019
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    215
    sorry but no
    just to hard to make it happen
    the real problem is we do not teach it in school to anyone that wants.
    grow up with firearms common sense.
    we are 40 years behind the other side of poor education
    i grew up before this was a problem

  10. #10
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    Jul 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsmithsr View Post
    sorry but no
    just to hard to make it happen
    the real problem is we do not teach it in school to anyone that wants.
    grow up with firearms common sense.
    we are 40 years behind the other side of poor education
    i grew up before this was a problem

    Have to agree with Mike on this one. Plus be careful of what road you start down.

  11. #11
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    Feb 2003
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    Tennessee
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    The Constitution states we have the right to "keep and bear".

    Safely??

    Nothing written about SAFETY!!!

    Bureaucrats can judge safety??


    .

  12. #12
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    Mar 2020
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    Third Tomb of Chritianity
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    JerrySharrett :

    Of course they do judge (their own) safety !!!! First Command : Armed individuals could raise a revolution aka firearms among citizens is BAD. And for firearms in the hands of criminals, no problem, the citizen is insured. Leftist Bureaucrats : furthermore, a criminal already is a victim of the Society.

    That's the way of Bureaucrats in the entire known Universe, and even anywhere else.


    Furthermore ......

  13. #13
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    Mar 2020
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    Third Tomb of Chritianity
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    ...


    I am in France.

    I had the chance to learn shooting and to learn the due respect to firearms with my Dad when I was a child, almost 50 years ago. At that time, many people -adults, so called reference for me - were already explaining me that firearm is BAD.

    At the age of 16 I was a licensed shooter and Dad owned for me 2 Win 94. And the 9422 weared (and is still wearing) a Williams FoolProof aperture sight.

    Later on, I (had the chance to) enter a 1.5 year mandatory military period and was teached again about shooting, carrying and so on, while many guys belonging to my class of age did whatever was possible to avoid that military time, from making a baby to simulated psycho issues. I chosed a way guiding me to aspirant-officer position, artillery, recon/topography, managing 12 to 20 guys. Back to the civilian world, it took me YEARS as an engineer and manager to achieve the same level of responsability and people management. I DO certainly not regret that period of my life, even if some potential employers told me it was a pure loss of time. Dude, that was certainly not, and so they remained "potential".

    Later on, I had the chance to be allowed to enter some LEOs firearm training cessions and LEOs "situation" matches. A very few days per year, I can carry and shoot "police stages" reproducing a real situation with a scenario, hostile and non hostile targets, doors, windows, corridors, vehicles, simulating a shop, a house, limited time. Half the situations are shot by two-person team. Shooting is 2/3 of the scoring, analysis/behaviour 1/3 and shooting a non hostile is a scoring catastrophe, but still easier than a 15 year period for homicide.That was created in Europe by the Liège Police School in Belgium, to place LEOs in "realistic life" shooting situation and to highly enforce on the situation analysis prior making the decision to shoot (or not) . Believe me, taking a good shot, even if in a dark room holding both handgun and light is the easy part of it.

    Later on, I entered the IPSC-R, shooting an AK platform.


    To make that long story short, let's say I was open minded and lucky enough to receive some firearm education all along my life. I self-assess I am quite a calm and safe guy to meet on a shooting range.


    I am living in a country where firearm possession is totally prohibited since 1995. As a legal exception, registred sport shooters, hunters, may be authorized to own firearms, ammos and use them in registred shooting clubs and at hunting.


    There is a class for the people willing to become hunters, then an examination, this topped by a State license allowing the recipient to hunt if he succeeded in the exam.

    The sport shooter also runs some basic training at the shooting range, and the range president shall assess the shooter to be ok with basic firearms handling and safety rules prior the guy could get licensed as a sport shooter.

    Then there is a 6 month period during witch that newly licensed shooter should practice under the eye of range officers before he could purchase a handgun or a high cap semi-auto carbine.


    Despite all that constrain in the process, as mentioned in a post here above, I have been leaving the range several time to get away from hazardous handling or shooting.

    My main concern is that when you, fellow experienced shooter and competitor, go to these morrons and gently explain how their handling is dangerous for the others, and try to teach them, they just react badly in a "I do what I want to do, I do not care of any rules" way. Not to say about the KILLING "That gun is unloaded".

    My latest shooting club has a video system permanently recording on all the ranges, with several cameras at the shooting places and some cameras looking down range to see where people are shooting and to see what people are shooting at (yep, that asshole shooting cans on the ground with 100% bullets ricochetting outside the range). The system is 100% legal, declared at the State.

    Nevertheless, we had enough safety concerns last year with people acting badly to invest and switch to high definition video system allowing for a face recognition and car plate reading at some longer distance.

    And approx 10 members out of a 650 pool are "fired" every year for safety issues with firearms or bad behaviouring on the range.



    All this to enhance on the fact that, IMHO, the lack of some kind of normal respect due to a "dangerous machine" and due to other citizens around you is the main issue.

    Same goes on the road with drivers behaviouring.


    Elementary courtesy seems to barely exist anymore. Even worse, acting "badass" tends to become a must. (Yep, I am a wolf among the sheeps !!! I am MAN !!)


    At the shooting range, the one who does not know, but cares about, can very easily ask, been teached, learn "how to"s, pays attention to what the other are doing.

    But unfortunately, for many, acting badass is their way of life.


    Whatever civilian or State type of enforcement, that will not solve that issue. Enforcement in France is high on drivers and extreme on LEGAL gun owners. No success.

    It's not about enforcement, it's educational, it's about living in a Society / Community with showing normal respect to others around you. And when you have a loaded firearm in you hands or on your hip, you have to show even more respect to both people and the gun.

    With regards to firemarms, successive French Gov'ts all made the choice to reduce legal firearm possession. That brought them leftist/ecolo votes, but solved, as we all know, an ABSOLUTE NOTHING regarding public safety and terro/criminal use of firearms.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Dolores Co
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    137

    Pick one

    You guys ought to pick which side your on, its a little fuzzy looking from here. the guy was on his own dam property in the midst of a bunch of lowlifes. shaking my F#$%^&G head.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Ca.
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    680
    What does 2nd Amendment have to say about it. Would you not be infringing on people's rights.

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