Tuners Suck

[martin hammond]

James, look at the post about extreme velocity. look at the last post about droping the widest variant. that would have been a dropper in a tuned but not fully tuned rifle. I may not have the tourniment experience that you madrox and Tony have. but I'll bet I've done more testing with lots of ammo and had as much range time as any. probably had as much range time experimenting as multiple shooters. and your right if I had an experienced shooters record there would be no argument about tuning. but James it only takes one dropper to kill a good target.

[J Pappas]

If I say anymore I will be on a sabattical with Beau.

[martin hammond]

James, I have answered over 70 emails, talked on the phone for hours. answered and sent dozens of pms, many emails from different countries and from some top shooters. not once was it personall. it was discusions on tuning and timing, what I've tried and what others have tried. why should what's posted here be any different.

[Beau]

But what was the nature of the phone calls. You're like a snake oil salesman. You've got the solution, and you've figured it out, but you're not gonna say what it is. That's because you don't really know. You're a kook.

[J Pappas]

Originally Posted by martin hammond

James, I have answered over 70 emails, talked on the phone for hours. answered and sent dozens of pms, many emails from different countries and from some top shooters. not once was it personall. it was discusions on tuning and timing, what I've tried and what others have tried. why should what's posted here be any different.

Martin, we will always disagree, I don't believe untuned rimfire rifles can beat the best rimfire shooters in the country at the ARA Nationals. I don't believe that DJ, Craig Young and David K. could win the World Championship with untuned rifles. I don't believe that Craig Young and David K. can shoot 5 matches in the PSL and come in 1st and 2nd with untuned rifles. I don't believe that Don M. and Marion Collier and Fred Leeds are fighting it out to win the A-Line with untuned rifles. I could go on but most people get my point. Apparently you do believe that none of these people are shooting tuned rifles. I get tired of saying it.

[gambler]

i got a theory.....brian Brandt did not shoot the winning score...the shots came from the roof of the St. Louis club house buy a second shooter using a tuned rifle ,and every body knows the Texas shoot came from the grassy knoll

[Kent Owens]

James,
Craig sure might be out of tune, but his rifle sure ain't He's a good boy though, even outta tune.

[J Pappas]

Originally Posted by Kent Owens

James,
Craig sure might be out of tune, but his rifle sure ain't He's a good boy though, even outta tune.

Craig marches to the tune of a different drummer but he may own the best shooting 22 rimfire out there.

[martin hammond]

Beau and james, tuning with 3 speeds as I have been doing the only advice I have received is maybe 2 extreme velocitys would do the same and a chronograph would be helpful. other than that not 1 from a educational backround has said wait a minute. only those involved emotionally. if setting a tuner untill the rounds drop and open into flyers and backing form there and selelecting the least vertical is wrong please tell me. you can't. all you can do is name calling. because something has been wrong and shooters have found a way to make it work for 20 years doesn't make it sound judgement and a reason for it to continue to do it that way for 20 more years. when I went to the firing line this year, looked at every rifle saw bloop tubes, barrel dampners and tire weights as tuning weights it was pretty obvious what rifles are tuned. James you may sell a product and Calfee may sell a product but the only product out there capable of tuning a rifle without modifications is the Von-Ahrens tuner and weight set. you guys might not like that answer but that's the way it is. if not prove me wrong with logic not emotions. all your supposed knowledge on tuning I've been waiting for someone to discuss extending the collar on the tuners but not one of you experts has asked what that would do. because you flat out don't understand what a fired barrel really does. someone made you guys a rifle and said go shoot it. and that's about the extent of it.

[J Pappas]

Originally Posted by martin hammond

Beau and james, tuning with 3 speeds as I have been doing the only advice I have received is maybe 2 extreme velocitys would do the same and a chronograph would be helpful. other than that not 1 from a educational backround has said wait a minute. only those involved emotionally. if setting a tuner untill the rounds drop and open into flyers and backing form there and selelecting the least vertical is wrong please tell me. you can't. all you can do is name calling. because something has been wrong and shooters have found a way to make it work for 20 years doesn't make it sound judgement and a reason for it to continue to do it that way for 20 more years. when I went to the firing line this year, looked at every rifle saw bloop tubes, barrel dampners and tire weights as tuning weights it was pretty obvious what rifles are tuned. James you may sell a product and Calfee may sell a product but the only product out there capable of tuning a rifle without modifications is the Von-Ahrens tuner and weight set. you guys might not like that answer but that's the way it is. if not prove me wrong with logic not emotions. all your supposed knowledge on tuning I've been waiting for someone to discuss extending the collar on the tuners but not one of you experts has asked what that would do. because you flat out don't understand what a fired barrel really does. someone made you guys a rifle and said go shoot it. and that's about the extent of it.

Well Martin you won't like this but most of the 2500 targets shot this year in ARA were using a parallel noodle. You do realize that the von Ahrens tuner is an adaptation of Bill Calfee's idea, right?

[Kent Owens]

James,
Craig keeps that Duke gun locked up and just brings it out on special occasions. I think he's saving it, and I don't blame him, it's a good one!

[bob finger]

Martin: The Von Ahrens and Harrells tuners are the same principal and tune exactly the same way. One might be easier to get into tune than the other but the rifle won't know the difference once tuned. Prove it to yourself. I did. The RVA is easier to clean (and tune) tho in my opinion. Its a bloop tube thing. Once tuned who cares...... bob finger

[Tom C.]

do you know how much the harrell tuner w/o any weight
or cap weighs? how about the von aherns w/o anything?
it doesn't say in killough's ad. i thought the harrell's run
8 or 9 ozs bare, and the von aherns about 4 ozs. and if anyone
knows i have one of the old hoehn-harrell tuners that came
on my suhl did that weigh 9oz plus 3oz permanent cap. thanks.

[bob finger]

Tom: Thats close. I can't find my notes right now and both rifles are tuned and ready for the weekend so I don't want to remove anything to weigh them again. You are within 1/2 ounce on both of them I suspect.

Every tuner is going to be a bit different too depending on how big the bore hole for the barrel is. bob finger

[Fiddler]

I have both style tuners on my guns. The harrel that I have weights in at 8.8 oz bare with no extra weight. The Von Ahrens that I have weights in at 3.8 oz bare with out the bloob or 1/2oz cap.