A clean barrel

[hecksf]

Mr Pete
As long as your gun shots well for you then I am sure you are doing fine.

Back when I first started shooting BR my first gun came with an older Hart Barrel. It showed a lot of fire cracking in the throat area and thin gold streaks in the groves up against the lands for about 6 or 8 inches. These thin streaks of copper would not come out with the normal chemical treatment. We tried butchs and sweets as well as a couple of others and the bore scope revealed that they were still there. They just didn't want to come out.
The last match I shot with that barrel was at the Blue Bonnet and I shot two
sub .450's at 200 yards back to back and then had the barrel replaced the next week. Mr Kelbly who sat next to me at that match said he didn't care what that barrel looked like, it appeared to him that it was still shooting. But I replaced it any way.
Sub .450 may not seem that great to some, but af Dietz in New Braunfels anything under a .6 at 200 is a keeper. I don't ever remember a match there when a condition hung around for more than about 10 or 15 seconds
Ted

[Bob Kingsbury]

In past years, P.S.had many articles about cleaning. Warren Page said
"cleanliness is whatever. I had no borescope and knew of no one who
did. So, my cleaning, even across the winter, when not being used, was
a wet and dry patch every other day. Then I got a bore scope and
no longer do things that way. I found that patches, especially tight ones
are not unlike a buffing wheel. Rounding of lands is easy. I also have
cleaned a few new unfired barrel. patches are nearly always grey. You
can get very black patches from a barrel that has never had a round fired
through them with J&B. Two barrels just in, look great when you hold them up
to the light, but are very badly powder fouled as if never cleaned. They
don't shoot well, less than 500 rounds each, but were cleaned often.
Bore scopes are not cheap, but the education is worth it. You will
also spend less on all the magic potions. Knowing what works in the barrel
and load you have helps, and I would still be in the dark without a borescope

[Old Gunner]

Originally Posted by Bob Kingsbury

I found that patches, especially tight ones
are not unlike a buffing wheel. Rounding of lands is easy.

Thats why I use an undersized jag tip (7mm size for .30 bores) and a thick felt like material, which I got many years ago at an auto supply store.
The felt is loose enough that any grit caught up in it won't be pushed hard against the steel.
A loop type end can cause problems if the patch is dragged back in the bore, the forwards end can let the patch double on itself, especially bad if the patch escapes the muzzle even by a fraction.

Don't know if I'm right but I prefer to push until the patch is near even with the muzzle then pull back when swabbing with solvent, and only push all the way through when pushing out residue.
When brushing I generally squirt plenty of solvent, Ballistol usually, and make several ful length passes then sluice the initially broken away crud out holding the muzzle down with a long spray of the same, or sometimes a thin penetrating oil.
When the fouling is thick and old I use gasoline and push the brush through into a can of gas to rinse away crud at each pass and draw fresh gas in with the brush.
I have some synthetic "Hair Pad" material left over from repairing the seats of show horse saddles, I think its dacron but not sure.
If theres a lot of softened residue I sometimes put a patch of this in a loop and using plenty of solvent use it to gently scrubb the bore, rinsing out the patch after every pass and replacing it every few passes. Then when I'm sure no grit is left I use the jag and felt.

I also have
cleaned a few new unfired barrel. patches are nearly always grey.

I've cleaned new barrels and found them as dirty as if fired, perhaps not properly cleaned after a factory test firing.
My Savage .22 with synthetic stock had a bore full of fine black dust which appeared to be dust from the manufacture of the stock, probably caught in crannies in the stock and migrating into the bore during shipping.

I've used a number of polishing compounds in cleaning up old knives and in metal finishing of various sorts. A black waxy or greasey residue on the rags is likely atomized steel mixed with the waxlike materials that hold the solid blocks of compound together.

I've found J&B is a lot more abrasive than its supposed to be, at least with older softer steels.

[Bob Kingsbury]

I am referring to barrel blanks that have neither been chambered
or testfired. A J&B patch will be black as coal. MY point is that
Black patches doesn't always mean your cleaning barrels. It
may be just a reaction. You can rub a j&B patch on the outside of your barrel and make it black. This goes for other abrasive cleaners as well.
I do chuckle when I here about people lapping lugs with J&B.

[Phil3]

What about minimizing barrel damage through use of the bore snake type devices? I have one, obtained from somewhere for a 22 rifle where you punch a patch through with the sharp end of a long plastic string (like weed eater material), and push the patch to the other end where it catches on a button, smaller than the rifle bore. Push the pointed end down the barrel until it emerges, grab, and pull through. Way easier than a rod, rod guide, and jags. I don't know if it is any more or less effective than the cleaning rod, but I saw no difference so far in an AR15 223.

- Phil

[f d shuster]

I've been putting my Hawkeye borescope to good use for almost 4 years now, using it to monitor the bore condition before, during and after cleaning. There were times when I thought the barrel was clean, since the patches were coming out white. Wrong! Several times found heavy deposits of carbon, usually beginning about 8" to 10" in front of the chamber, for the next 6" to 8", then fairly clean to the muzzle. JB is used with 10 to 20 push strokes, depending on the severity, washed out with Hoppes, dried, scoped and all traces of carbon are gone. The bore once again looks like it's chrome plated. I find powder fouling the easiest to remove, copper a little more difficult, sometimes requiring overnight soaking (with Butch's), and carbon the most difficult to remove. Without the borescope I'd be guessing what is going on inside the barrel, and with it I'm able to prove or dis-prove some of the claims being made-- some products really are "snake-oil". Works for me.

[michael gould]

maybe it's a fluke BUT...i have a 6br that really seeme to "run" after there's been 30 or more rounds through it. belonged to a great friend of mine, got it in a trade, and between the two of us we tried every method that seemed reasonable...yet, on a casual, load-development -type day, i found that the possibility of just plain shooting the thing was completely "do-able". of course, i then guiltily cleaned the snot out of it at the end of the day...how about round-counts? anyone have one that just seems to go beyond all traditional thought? eberyone says this barrel in that caliber SHOULD last X amount, etc...anyone found a non-conforming barrel in their collection?
just curious!

[Bob Kingsbury]

The worst barrel I have seen yet, arrived an hour ago. It was cleaned
faithfully after each day of shooting. Untill the patches came out clean.
This is a hunting rifle, The targets that accompanied it are very big, in the order of 2 3/4 to 3 inches. Fliers in random directions take this out of the 1 inch category. When looking at voids in the fouling, the edges show some
serious thickness. Unless the scope has gone south in a big way,This
barrel is a candidate for serious work.

[dlay]

All replys have been interesting, I know that I am not going to be so strict on cleaning in the future, just let the barrel tell me when by accuracy.

[Nader]

Bob,
You know this stuff better than me but sometimes we get too BR myopic when it comes to basic stuff. If big flyers are killin' a huntin' rifle,particularly a big boomer, I'd be scrutinizing a free floatin fore-end that dosn't quite have enough clearance at the forend tip,and when the barrel whips it smacks the end of the stock and launches "Sputnik" out of the group. Naturally, good bedding with a 1" pad in front of( but not touching) the recoil lug is usually "sporter heaven", but every stick and steel combo has it's own personality.Even the worst factory barrels will shoot down the middle if left unabated by bad bedding and insufficient forend clearance.
I think if you start with the crude and move on to the refined,you should be able to tame this beast in short order.
Joel

[Old Gunner]

Originally Posted by Phil3

What about minimizing barrel damage through use of the bore snake type devices? I have one, obtained from somewhere for a 22 rifle where you punch a patch through with the sharp end of a long plastic string (like weed eater material), and push the patch to the other end where it catches on a button, smaller than the rifle bore. Push the pointed end down the barrel until it emerges, grab, and pull through. Way easier than a rod, rod guide, and jags. I don't know if it is any more or less effective than the cleaning rod, but I saw no difference so far in an AR15 223.

- Phil

Sounds like an updated "pull through" or cleaning cord. Old time Army used to use the cord from their campaign hats for the purpose if a standard issue pull through were not available. Usually each squad had one cleaning rod or the rifles came with a short rod so that two or three could be screwed together for more through cleaning. Sometimes troops were not allowed to use a rod, any serious cleaning being the responsibility of a corporal or other non com.
The British found that a cleaning rod in its track under the fore end could vibrate and effect accuracy so they used pull throughs stored in a butt trap after the SMLE was adopted.
Breechloading Carbines usually didn't have an accomodation for a rod, so thats probably where the practice originated.
While a cord can prevent the sort of damage a steel rod might do, such as dinging the lands at mid bore, or at the muzzle if the rod is pushed through without your catching it as it emerges, The cord itself can pick up grit and is difficult to pull straight through without rubbing against one side of the crown and I've seen a few old rifles with the muzzle "Cord Worn" to an oval. Cord wear to the chamber can be dangerous, leaving the case poorly supported on one side and inviting a blown case.

A synthetic cord would probably be less likely to hold grit.

I keep a home made pull through handy when in the field but prefer not to use one except with a .22 Marlin auto loader which can't otherwise be cleaned from the breech. If I have to brush the Marlin's bore I use a short .22 pistol brush , put the brush threaded end forwards into the chamber then slip a rod down the bore from the muzzle very carefully screw it onto the brush threads and pull it through , unscrew the brush, and then repeat the process a few times.
I then finish up with patches and pull through cord.
Care must be taken that the bolt handle latch doesn't come loose while the brush is halfway out at the chamber end, if it does it can get stuck tight.

[Fred Bohl]

You may find this thread pertinent:

http://www.accurateshooter.com/forum...2645785.0.html

[hecksf]

I have seen troops from 3rd world countries use the pull through method to clean rifle bores by tying a not in a piece of 550 cord or some other available cord and pulling it through the bore .....usually from the breach to the muzzle.

However I can remember at least 3 times when we have had to go in with a steel cleaning rod and pound a knot back out because it was too big and got wedged in a tight section of the bore.

The first time I saw this I was impressed by their ingenuity but if not executed properly it could cause some issues.

I have also seen this method used in Afghanistan. Old motor oil is usually the cleaner/lube of choice in these instances.

[Waylan Kisor]

I thought us old farts were the only ones who put primers in backwards. Makes shooting more interesting....